WTF am I?

singstheword:

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- John 14:6

This is one bible quote that I have struggled with for some time. While I’m no longer a practicing Catholic, I do own a Bible (King James version), and I do leaf through it from time to time. The only books I’ve read fully are Genesis (I had intended to read the whole thing cover to cover, but all the begats got to me) and Revelation, but I have read quite a bit here and there, in addition to some quotes (and the passages around them) that I have sought out.  Of all that I have read, this one quote really gets me thinking.

What does it mean?  That I just have to “accept” Jesus into my life, and I’m good to go?  And if so, what is this acceptance and how does one do it?  Through prayer?  And how often?  Just once?  Daily?  And what does it mean to “cometh unto the Father?”  I’ve assumed he was referring to entering in to heaven, but was he?  And then, what of the belief that Jesus was a “sun god” like others.. would that mean that the Sun is ‘the way, the truth, and the life,’ and if so, what would ‘no man cometh unto the Father but by me’ mean?  And to add to this confusion, what significance might the ‘body & blood’ hold then?  Might this simply an instruction to get regular sunlight, eat whole grains, and drink wine; something more; or something else entirely?

I could go on with my thoughts and questions on this one…

I am sad to hear that you are no longer a practicing Catholic. I would suggest seeing a good, knowledgeable priest to see if he can answer any questions which may have led you out.

It means that Jesus is God. That is the simplest way to put it.

Just accepting Jesus into your life is quite a misnomer since accepting Him involves much more than a profound, one-time statement. it is a complete way of living your life.

Accepting Jesus is an all-in-one experience. One must do so via prayer, thought, emotion, body, the whole bit. Accepting Him is not a once, a weekly, a daily, an hourly, or any other length of time thing. You must accept Him at all times. This really is just acknowledging that He is the omnipotent God, and deciding that you are going to do the only next logical thing: do whatever He says.

He was indeed referring to Heaven.

He is not a “sun god” like others since they don’t exist (logically there can only be one God (conversation for another time)). He is the God of everything.

The body, blood, soul, and divinity of Christ is one of the most precious gifts there are. Only fully pure things are in Heaven. To be in Heaven, you must be fully pure. This is impossible without God’s help. The body, blood, soul, and divinity truly present in the Eucharist are the most powerful way in which He gives us this help.

It would be something more entirely.

Coming to Him via the Father is a statement which means that He  is there for everyone since the Father beckons all. We need to follow the beckon though. To not follow this is to choose to be apart from God (Hell).

I know that this is not extremely comprehensive, but I tried to make it short. Feel free to message me with more questions if you want.

God Bless!

PAX VOBISCVM

Thanks for your response, but for the most part, it’s just more of the same, and more than a bit vague.  One interesting thing you’ve said is that we must be ‘pure’ to enter heaven - what do you think that means?  Pure in mind, body, or spirit, or all three?  And if all three, then what do you think about what most of us eat regularly?

As for the bit about Jesus being a sun god - I don’t believe that, but I was alluding to the fact that some do, as well as the fact that “son” and “sun” might be interchangeable in the bible in some passages (ex. “Truly the light is sweet, and a pleasant thing it is for the eyes to behold the sun” - Ecclesiastes 11:7).

Anyway, I’m not interested in organized religion at this point.  From what I can tell, Jesus taught against it, and then ‘they’ went and founded a religion on his teachings.

I’m looking for a more practical look at Jesus’ teachings, and this passage in particular.  He was a practical man from what I can tell, and I think much of his advice was equally practical.  Now, considering the time he was here, I do not believe that all who died before him were unable to make it to heaven (if indeed such a place exists), so it seems to me that accepting Him as God would not have been possible before He visited us, and indeed even once He had, there would have been many who hadn’t heard of Him for quite some time.  No, it seems to me He meant something more practical, and likely quite simple, though knowing some things it is also likely has meaning on more than one level, so what you say is likely correct, but I believe there is something more.

Pure entirely! Not just in those three, but in everything! We are incapable of doing this, so we need God’s help.

Son and Sun being interchangeable only goes as far as English. Remember that the Gospel was not written in English first.

Jesus did not teach against organized religion on its own. He taught against bad organized religion. The Pharisees had gotten so into their organization that they forgot the purpose was to love God and man. Organized religion is only bad when it no longer tries to bring others to God and becomes nothing more than human tenants. Jesus did found a Church (Matthew 16:18) , so He couldn’t be against organized religion.

By all means, no those who came before Him certainly had equal opportunity to go to Heaven. Today, not all who know about Jesus go to Heaven (it’s much more than that). There are people today who have never heard the name Jesus. That certainly doesn’t mean that they can’t go to Heaven. The Father beckons all. He brings them to Himself in ways which they understand. People who live by their conscience and do what is good (to the best of their knowledge) are living the Gospel (they just don’t know it by that name). Their are certain things which are true and knowable without needing God to tell us. Their are things that are bad without God needing to tell us. He can give us the fullness of faith, but there is a lot which we can understand just through reasoning.

Accepting Jesus and His teachings (which included organized religion in His Church) is the best way to accept His salvation. People who are incapable of this (having never heard of Jesus) need only to accept those things that they know are true and right to accept Jesus. They accept Him without knowing His name.

It would be impossible for me to tell you everything this statement might mean, because I am only a human. God tells us things that we don’t even know. There is more, this is just what I have to offer of it because this is what I have of it (though not all).

And, yes, indeed such a place exists.

God Bless!

PAX VOBISCVM

Thanks for your response.  

Ok, pure entirely.. so, what are your thoughts on the food produced, purchased, and consumed regularly?

I do realize the gospel was not written in english first, but once it was translated, or during translation, an error here and there could have easily turned ‘sun’ into ‘son’ and vice-versa.

Ok, Jesus didn’t teach against organized religion in-and-of-itself sure, but what of the quote below? What religion do you know of where the “teachers” do NOT have the most important seats and places of honor?  How about that popemobile eh?

• Mark 12:38-40 - ³⁸ As he taught, Jesus said, “Watch out for the teachers of the law. They like to walk around in flowing robes and be greeted with respect in the marketplaces, ³⁹ and have the most important seats in the synagogues and the places of honor at banquets. ⁴⁰ They devour widows’ houses and for a show make lengthy prayers. These men will be punished most severely.”

From what I can tell, the only church Jesus spoke of was simple, one where people gather together and are thankful, without all the pomp and ceremony:

• Matthew 18: 20 - For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.

Anyway, while I appreciate the comments, none of this is anything new to me.  I’m looking for practicality here, so if you cannot provide it, please don’t respond.  If you believe differently, hey that’s great, I’m not trying to change your mind, I’m simply trying to develop a more practical understanding of this teaching.

My thoughts on the food would stem from Matthew 15:11 - It is not what goes into the mouth that defiles a person, but it is what comes out of the mouth that defiles. From a practicality standpoint. it really doesn’t matter too much what you eat since it all gets broken down into basic building blocks and assimilated. Obviously you shouldn’t drink poison, you shouldn’t clog your arteries. But, again, Matthew 15:11 … there are more important things.

About your comment of sun - son. We have the Greek text. I see no way in which 2000 years later, we could have made this mistake. Considering the amount of time and effort go into translating the Bible. Translations aren’t perfect, but I don’t see that error being a problem.

Alright, for your passage about excessive teachers. i went to my Greek Bible (the language of origin for this passage). I read that it does not say “punished more severely.” It claims that they will receive more excessive judgement. This means that they will be examined more closely to see if they truly lived the Gospel. Now, most of what he hierarchy of the Church does is not wrong or bad. This passage deals with intent. We show honor to someone who deserves it, whether they want it or not. Sure, a Pope could be a very evil man (this doesn’t change the goodness of the Church that Christ founded), but you would still honor him as much as he deserved (for being Pope, not for being evil). Public prayer can be good and bad. If it is used to make others know that you are “holier than thou” then it is bad. If it is used (as in the Catholic Church) to bring people together, then it is good.

The pope-mobile was made so that we wouldn’t have the scare of the Pope being shot again. Its use is entirely for practical reasons.

The only problem with small gatherings of people coming together like that is that, nowadays, there are 36,000 denominations of Christianity which all teach different things about God. Obviously God doesn’t change between groups; He is who He is. So, having people split off like that only makes people worship something false about their God. Having a centralized place to go, which is given the gift of making no mistakes in teaching, would be the only practical way of God giving us religious practices. He knows how He wants us to worship Him, and He’s told us via the Church that he founded through Peter. We should take care always to do what He wants.

For practicality sake, I don’t really know what this passage’s practical standpoint could be other than: if you believe this passage become a Christian and look at His Church. He only founded one Church, and only that Church has never changed a single teaching since the time of Christ. The practicality of this passage is to be a Christian in communion with His Church and to do all the other things which go with it. Follow the 10 Commandments. Follow the Beatitudes. Follow the Natural Law. Follow the Divine Law. Follow Human Laws which are compatible with Divine and Natural Law. Love God. Love your neighbor. That should about cover everything. I don’t know how specific you want my answer to be, but you can’t get very specific from this passage since it isn’t meant to define how to act.

LMAO

Ok, sure the popemobile has practicality behind it to some degree, but does it have to be a mercedes?  And what of the other things?  About the most important places and the places of honour?

As for food, I’ve read the passage in Matthew, and I’ve also explored how what I eat affects me, and that is correct, it is that which comes out of the mouth which defileth the man, HOWEVER, that which goes in the mouth has a STRONG influence on that - play around with your diet and see.  And you say one should not eat poison - what exactly are all the chemicals in packaged foods these days but poison?  They’re certainly not meant for humans to eat, and unfortunately, the human body CANNOT break down these artificially created chemical compounds - look at the rise of the incidences of cancer lately - and then look at the number of people who have CURED themselves simply by changing their diet (like Chris here: http://chrisbeatcancer.com/).

Anyway, most of your response is more of the same-old, but I do like one thing about your response here:

For practicality sake, I don’t really know what this passage’s practical standpoint could be other than..

How about let’s leave it at that, you simply don’t know, neither do I, and neither do most of the rest of us.

I can’t leave it at that. You missed the most important part of my quote … the rest of the sentence! You tried to find a practical view of a passage with no practical application unless you are Christian. This passage has no practical application other than “Be a Christian.” Misquoting someone to suit your opinion does nothing when the person’s full idea is expressed above. I do know. you can’t even call that a full quote … it ends with a preposition! PRE-position … it comes before something. Something must follow it. Did you read the rest of the sentence? I gave you the answer, then you claim that I don’t know it. I’m sorry if I sound gruff, but seriously! Don’t misquote me to suit your opinion or what you want to hear. That’s not what I have to say! 

No matter what you eat, you still have to choose to do evil. Eating a salad instead of a BigMac does not make you a good person. Food doesn’t affect the fact that we still have free will. Yes, most packaged food nowadays has chemicals that are bad for you! I’m not disagreeing. What does that have to do with following Jesus? There are far more important matters than eating a perfectly healthy diet (none exists anyway).

If you don’t want “more of the same-old” don’t ask a question whose answer is simply “more of the same-old.” The reason the answer is “more of the same-old” is because this question was answered almost 2000 years ago! We’ve had the answer that long. It hasn’t changed. Sure it sounds old-fashioned because it hasn’t changed. There is no new answer to this question with more pizzaz or what-have-you.

Please don’t use my mother-tongue for vulgar language (lmAo), it’s personally insulting.

Now, your misquote brings you to a false conclusion. You said that I don’t know. I do. I have been told what the answer is. I know it. You need to read beyond the beginning clause of that sentence. The reason I used the words “I don’t know” is because BEYOND WHAT I LATER WROTE there really isn’t a practical answer worth finding. Since that other answer (which doesn’t even really exist) isn’t worth knowing, I chose not to learn it (also because it is a lie). the only practical meaning of this passage is “Be a Christian” after that, one must simply do as Jesus’ mother said, “Do whatever He tells you.”

God Bless!

PAX VOBISCVM

If you’re insulted by anything I’ve typed, that is for you to deal with, not me, as there was no insult intended. 

As for there being far more important matters than eating a perfectly healthy diet, and that none exists anyway - how do you know this?  Do you know everything?  Or did someone who does tell you this?  Because I’ve EXPERIENCED different.  My son is not quite 2, but so far he hasn’t been diagnosed with ANY health issues beyond eczema, which has now cleared up.  Interesting how a diet high in whole grains has helped him, and me, and it was bread that Jesus held up at the last supper.. hmm.. 

Anyway, thanks for sharing your point of view on this, but it’s simply that, your point of view, and one I’ve heard many times before, usually from people who’ve never tried or explored things for themselves.  In your opinion there “isn’t a practical answer worth finding” but in my opinion there is - and it’s not a NEW answer, or any “pizzazz” - it’s simply the unadulterated truth I am seeking.  You’re free to believe what you wish, and I will keep searching, as so far my searching has resulted in my gaining control of my own health, my son’s health, and more recently to improving my relationships on every level.

Is physical health all there is? Is there nothing more important than the physical world? You just claimed to have experienced that the physical world is more important than God. Eating good food does not make you spiritually healthier. Yes, it’s better for you physically, but our spirit is far more important. He also help up wine. He also help up His own body, His own blood, His own soul, and His own divinity. They have to be at least as important (they’re more important, but this particualr logic argument doesn’t necessarily require that).

Yes, I have been told by someone who knows everything: God. You quoted Him.

I have tried to give you the unadulterated truth. God exists. He has shown us who He is. He has asked us to follow Him. We should do that for the sole fact that He is God. There. That’s as simple as I can make it!

Religion isn’t an opinion. It’s about God telling us the truth, and us choosing to believe Him. Truth is not subjective. What’s true for me is true for you is true for everyone. We can choose to believe that or not, but reality is not dependent upon our belief thereof.

Your relationships on every level include God, right? I feel that that might be the area of most importance. Family is important. Friends are important. Other people are important. God is far more important than all of these things combined by the very definition of Him.

Okay, this is getting silly.

Of course physical health is not all there is - I never said that, you continually make assumptions about me that are completely incorrect.  The physical is not more important than the mental or the spiritual - they are all important.  When I eat well, my mind is clearer, and I find it easier to be patient, open, and understanding with others, regardless of their attitude toward me.  The physical, mental, and spiritual are all linked.  When the physical is imbalanced or disturbed, it affects both the mental, which affects the spiritual, and vice-versa.  Neglect one, and they all suffer.

As for my relationships on every level including God, you should know this, considering God talks to you. “Whatsoever you do to the least of My brothers, that you do unto Me.”  So to say that He is “far more important” than all of these things combined is ridiculous - they are all equally important - if you forsake any of them for Him, then you’ve missed the point entirely.

But, as I’ve said before, and I’ll say again, believe what you will, you are certainly free to do so.

So Go d is no more important than anything else? That is illogical if you believe in God. He is all-powerful. He is more important because without Him, nothing exists.Whether or not he asks you to help people is irrelevant, He is still more important.

“As for there being far more important matters than eating a perfectly healthy diet, and that none exists anyway - how do you know this? … Because I’ve EXPERIENCED different.” This sentence actually says that you have experienced that there are no matters far more important than physical health. You typed this. This is why I gathered that you thought physical health was at the top. Do you see where I’m coming from?

Quoting from Scripture to support your own opinion only goes as far as that. He has said that what we do to His people we have done to Him. He also says that He is God all-mighty and that we should honor nothing above or equally to Him. It’s not “either or.” It’s “both and.”

I completely agree with the fact that all three are linked, and that neglecting one hurts the other three, but if your spirit is in bad shape, you  are going to die spiritually. This is far worse than dying physically or mentally, so we should pay extra attention to the more important factors.

God Bless!

PAX VOBISCVM

It appears you don’t understand the idea that God IS everything, therefore no, he is not MORE important than anything, and nothing is more important than Him.

I never said physical was more important than spiritual or mental, they are all EQUALLY important.

And yes, I absolutely see where you’re coming from - saw it with your first comment, and that’s why I don’t go to church, and why I would never come to you for advice.

Again, believe what you want, but if you ever have the COURAGE to try to find out, you will be amazed at the things you have been missing.

Anyway, I’m not trying to change your mind, so keep on keepin’ on and I hope it goes well for you, this will be my last response, as you obviously have no interest in even TRYING to see where I am coming from, you only care if I see your perspective.

Be well.

singstheword:

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- John 14:6

This is one bible quote that I have struggled with for some time. While I’m no longer a practicing Catholic, I do own a Bible (King James version), and I do leaf through it from time to time. The only books I’ve read fully are Genesis (I had intended to read the whole thing cover to cover, but all the begats got to me) and Revelation, but I have read quite a bit here and there, in addition to some quotes (and the passages around them) that I have sought out.  Of all that I have read, this one quote really gets me thinking.

What does it mean?  That I just have to “accept” Jesus into my life, and I’m good to go?  And if so, what is this acceptance and how does one do it?  Through prayer?  And how often?  Just once?  Daily?  And what does it mean to “cometh unto the Father?”  I’ve assumed he was referring to entering in to heaven, but was he?  And then, what of the belief that Jesus was a “sun god” like others.. would that mean that the Sun is ‘the way, the truth, and the life,’ and if so, what would ‘no man cometh unto the Father but by me’ mean?  And to add to this confusion, what significance might the ‘body & blood’ hold then?  Might this simply an instruction to get regular sunlight, eat whole grains, and drink wine; something more; or something else entirely?

I could go on with my thoughts and questions on this one…

I am sad to hear that you are no longer a practicing Catholic. I would suggest seeing a good, knowledgeable priest to see if he can answer any questions which may have led you out.

It means that Jesus is God. That is the simplest way to put it.

Just accepting Jesus into your life is quite a misnomer since accepting Him involves much more than a profound, one-time statement. it is a complete way of living your life.

Accepting Jesus is an all-in-one experience. One must do so via prayer, thought, emotion, body, the whole bit. Accepting Him is not a once, a weekly, a daily, an hourly, or any other length of time thing. You must accept Him at all times. This really is just acknowledging that He is the omnipotent God, and deciding that you are going to do the only next logical thing: do whatever He says.

He was indeed referring to Heaven.

He is not a “sun god” like others since they don’t exist (logically there can only be one God (conversation for another time)). He is the God of everything.

The body, blood, soul, and divinity of Christ is one of the most precious gifts there are. Only fully pure things are in Heaven. To be in Heaven, you must be fully pure. This is impossible without God’s help. The body, blood, soul, and divinity truly present in the Eucharist are the most powerful way in which He gives us this help.

It would be something more entirely.

Coming to Him via the Father is a statement which means that He  is there for everyone since the Father beckons all. We need to follow the beckon though. To not follow this is to choose to be apart from God (Hell).

I know that this is not extremely comprehensive, but I tried to make it short. Feel free to message me with more questions if you want.

God Bless!

PAX VOBISCVM

Thanks for your response, but for the most part, it’s just more of the same, and more than a bit vague.  One interesting thing you’ve said is that we must be ‘pure’ to enter heaven - what do you think that means?  Pure in mind, body, or spirit, or all three?  And if all three, then what do you think about what most of us eat regularly?

As for the bit about Jesus being a sun god - I don’t believe that, but I was alluding to the fact that some do, as well as the fact that “son” and “sun” might be interchangeable in the bible in some passages (ex. “Truly the light is sweet, and a pleasant thing it is for the eyes to behold the sun” - Ecclesiastes 11:7).

Anyway, I’m not interested in organized religion at this point.  From what I can tell, Jesus taught against it, and then ‘they’ went and founded a religion on his teachings.

I’m looking for a more practical look at Jesus’ teachings, and this passage in particular.  He was a practical man from what I can tell, and I think much of his advice was equally practical.  Now, considering the time he was here, I do not believe that all who died before him were unable to make it to heaven (if indeed such a place exists), so it seems to me that accepting Him as God would not have been possible before He visited us, and indeed even once He had, there would have been many who hadn’t heard of Him for quite some time.  No, it seems to me He meant something more practical, and likely quite simple, though knowing some things it is also likely has meaning on more than one level, so what you say is likely correct, but I believe there is something more.

Pure entirely! Not just in those three, but in everything! We are incapable of doing this, so we need God’s help.

Son and Sun being interchangeable only goes as far as English. Remember that the Gospel was not written in English first.

Jesus did not teach against organized religion on its own. He taught against bad organized religion. The Pharisees had gotten so into their organization that they forgot the purpose was to love God and man. Organized religion is only bad when it no longer tries to bring others to God and becomes nothing more than human tenants. Jesus did found a Church (Matthew 16:18) , so He couldn’t be against organized religion.

By all means, no those who came before Him certainly had equal opportunity to go to Heaven. Today, not all who know about Jesus go to Heaven (it’s much more than that). There are people today who have never heard the name Jesus. That certainly doesn’t mean that they can’t go to Heaven. The Father beckons all. He brings them to Himself in ways which they understand. People who live by their conscience and do what is good (to the best of their knowledge) are living the Gospel (they just don’t know it by that name). Their are certain things which are true and knowable without needing God to tell us. Their are things that are bad without God needing to tell us. He can give us the fullness of faith, but there is a lot which we can understand just through reasoning.

Accepting Jesus and His teachings (which included organized religion in His Church) is the best way to accept His salvation. People who are incapable of this (having never heard of Jesus) need only to accept those things that they know are true and right to accept Jesus. They accept Him without knowing His name.

It would be impossible for me to tell you everything this statement might mean, because I am only a human. God tells us things that we don’t even know. There is more, this is just what I have to offer of it because this is what I have of it (though not all).

And, yes, indeed such a place exists.

God Bless!

PAX VOBISCVM

Thanks for your response.  

Ok, pure entirely.. so, what are your thoughts on the food produced, purchased, and consumed regularly?

I do realize the gospel was not written in english first, but once it was translated, or during translation, an error here and there could have easily turned ‘sun’ into ‘son’ and vice-versa.

Ok, Jesus didn’t teach against organized religion in-and-of-itself sure, but what of the quote below? What religion do you know of where the “teachers” do NOT have the most important seats and places of honor?  How about that popemobile eh?

• Mark 12:38-40 - ³⁸ As he taught, Jesus said, “Watch out for the teachers of the law. They like to walk around in flowing robes and be greeted with respect in the marketplaces, ³⁹ and have the most important seats in the synagogues and the places of honor at banquets. ⁴⁰ They devour widows’ houses and for a show make lengthy prayers. These men will be punished most severely.”

From what I can tell, the only church Jesus spoke of was simple, one where people gather together and are thankful, without all the pomp and ceremony:

• Matthew 18: 20 - For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.

Anyway, while I appreciate the comments, none of this is anything new to me.  I’m looking for practicality here, so if you cannot provide it, please don’t respond.  If you believe differently, hey that’s great, I’m not trying to change your mind, I’m simply trying to develop a more practical understanding of this teaching.

My thoughts on the food would stem from Matthew 15:11 - It is not what goes into the mouth that defiles a person, but it is what comes out of the mouth that defiles. From a practicality standpoint. it really doesn’t matter too much what you eat since it all gets broken down into basic building blocks and assimilated. Obviously you shouldn’t drink poison, you shouldn’t clog your arteries. But, again, Matthew 15:11 … there are more important things.

About your comment of sun - son. We have the Greek text. I see no way in which 2000 years later, we could have made this mistake. Considering the amount of time and effort go into translating the Bible. Translations aren’t perfect, but I don’t see that error being a problem.

Alright, for your passage about excessive teachers. i went to my Greek Bible (the language of origin for this passage). I read that it does not say “punished more severely.” It claims that they will receive more excessive judgement. This means that they will be examined more closely to see if they truly lived the Gospel. Now, most of what he hierarchy of the Church does is not wrong or bad. This passage deals with intent. We show honor to someone who deserves it, whether they want it or not. Sure, a Pope could be a very evil man (this doesn’t change the goodness of the Church that Christ founded), but you would still honor him as much as he deserved (for being Pope, not for being evil). Public prayer can be good and bad. If it is used to make others know that you are “holier than thou” then it is bad. If it is used (as in the Catholic Church) to bring people together, then it is good.

The pope-mobile was made so that we wouldn’t have the scare of the Pope being shot again. Its use is entirely for practical reasons.

The only problem with small gatherings of people coming together like that is that, nowadays, there are 36,000 denominations of Christianity which all teach different things about God. Obviously God doesn’t change between groups; He is who He is. So, having people split off like that only makes people worship something false about their God. Having a centralized place to go, which is given the gift of making no mistakes in teaching, would be the only practical way of God giving us religious practices. He knows how He wants us to worship Him, and He’s told us via the Church that he founded through Peter. We should take care always to do what He wants.

For practicality sake, I don’t really know what this passage’s practical standpoint could be other than: if you believe this passage become a Christian and look at His Church. He only founded one Church, and only that Church has never changed a single teaching since the time of Christ. The practicality of this passage is to be a Christian in communion with His Church and to do all the other things which go with it. Follow the 10 Commandments. Follow the Beatitudes. Follow the Natural Law. Follow the Divine Law. Follow Human Laws which are compatible with Divine and Natural Law. Love God. Love your neighbor. That should about cover everything. I don’t know how specific you want my answer to be, but you can’t get very specific from this passage since it isn’t meant to define how to act.

LMAO

Ok, sure the popemobile has practicality behind it to some degree, but does it have to be a mercedes?  And what of the other things?  About the most important places and the places of honour?

As for food, I’ve read the passage in Matthew, and I’ve also explored how what I eat affects me, and that is correct, it is that which comes out of the mouth which defileth the man, HOWEVER, that which goes in the mouth has a STRONG influence on that - play around with your diet and see.  And you say one should not eat poison - what exactly are all the chemicals in packaged foods these days but poison?  They’re certainly not meant for humans to eat, and unfortunately, the human body CANNOT break down these artificially created chemical compounds - look at the rise of the incidences of cancer lately - and then look at the number of people who have CURED themselves simply by changing their diet (like Chris here: http://chrisbeatcancer.com/).

Anyway, most of your response is more of the same-old, but I do like one thing about your response here:

For practicality sake, I don’t really know what this passage’s practical standpoint could be other than..

How about let’s leave it at that, you simply don’t know, neither do I, and neither do most of the rest of us.

I can’t leave it at that. You missed the most important part of my quote … the rest of the sentence! You tried to find a practical view of a passage with no practical application unless you are Christian. This passage has no practical application other than “Be a Christian.” Misquoting someone to suit your opinion does nothing when the person’s full idea is expressed above. I do know. you can’t even call that a full quote … it ends with a preposition! PRE-position … it comes before something. Something must follow it. Did you read the rest of the sentence? I gave you the answer, then you claim that I don’t know it. I’m sorry if I sound gruff, but seriously! Don’t misquote me to suit your opinion or what you want to hear. That’s not what I have to say! 

No matter what you eat, you still have to choose to do evil. Eating a salad instead of a BigMac does not make you a good person. Food doesn’t affect the fact that we still have free will. Yes, most packaged food nowadays has chemicals that are bad for you! I’m not disagreeing. What does that have to do with following Jesus? There are far more important matters than eating a perfectly healthy diet (none exists anyway).

If you don’t want “more of the same-old” don’t ask a question whose answer is simply “more of the same-old.” The reason the answer is “more of the same-old” is because this question was answered almost 2000 years ago! We’ve had the answer that long. It hasn’t changed. Sure it sounds old-fashioned because it hasn’t changed. There is no new answer to this question with more pizzaz or what-have-you.

Please don’t use my mother-tongue for vulgar language (lmAo), it’s personally insulting.

Now, your misquote brings you to a false conclusion. You said that I don’t know. I do. I have been told what the answer is. I know it. You need to read beyond the beginning clause of that sentence. The reason I used the words “I don’t know” is because BEYOND WHAT I LATER WROTE there really isn’t a practical answer worth finding. Since that other answer (which doesn’t even really exist) isn’t worth knowing, I chose not to learn it (also because it is a lie). the only practical meaning of this passage is “Be a Christian” after that, one must simply do as Jesus’ mother said, “Do whatever He tells you.”

God Bless!

PAX VOBISCVM

If you’re insulted by anything I’ve typed, that is for you to deal with, not me, as there was no insult intended. 

As for there being far more important matters than eating a perfectly healthy diet, and that none exists anyway - how do you know this?  Do you know everything?  Or did someone who does tell you this?  Because I’ve EXPERIENCED different.  My son is not quite 2, but so far he hasn’t been diagnosed with ANY health issues beyond eczema, which has now cleared up.  Interesting how a diet high in whole grains has helped him, and me, and it was bread that Jesus held up at the last supper.. hmm.. 

Anyway, thanks for sharing your point of view on this, but it’s simply that, your point of view, and one I’ve heard many times before, usually from people who’ve never tried or explored things for themselves.  In your opinion there “isn’t a practical answer worth finding” but in my opinion there is - and it’s not a NEW answer, or any “pizzazz” - it’s simply the unadulterated truth I am seeking.  You’re free to believe what you wish, and I will keep searching, as so far my searching has resulted in my gaining control of my own health, my son’s health, and more recently to improving my relationships on every level.

Is physical health all there is? Is there nothing more important than the physical world? You just claimed to have experienced that the physical world is more important than God. Eating good food does not make you spiritually healthier. Yes, it’s better for you physically, but our spirit is far more important. He also help up wine. He also help up His own body, His own blood, His own soul, and His own divinity. They have to be at least as important (they’re more important, but this particualr logic argument doesn’t necessarily require that).

Yes, I have been told by someone who knows everything: God. You quoted Him.

I have tried to give you the unadulterated truth. God exists. He has shown us who He is. He has asked us to follow Him. We should do that for the sole fact that He is God. There. That’s as simple as I can make it!

Religion isn’t an opinion. It’s about God telling us the truth, and us choosing to believe Him. Truth is not subjective. What’s true for me is true for you is true for everyone. We can choose to believe that or not, but reality is not dependent upon our belief thereof.

Your relationships on every level include God, right? I feel that that might be the area of most importance. Family is important. Friends are important. Other people are important. God is far more important than all of these things combined by the very definition of Him.

Okay, this is getting silly.

Of course physical health is not all there is - I never said that, you continually make assumptions about me that are completely incorrect.  The physical is not more important than the mental or the spiritual - they are all important.  When I eat well, my mind is clearer, and I find it easier to be patient, open, and understanding with others, regardless of their attitude toward me.  The physical, mental, and spiritual are all linked.  When the physical is imbalanced or disturbed, it affects both the mental, which affects the spiritual, and vice-versa.  Neglect one, and they all suffer.

As for my relationships on every level including God, you should know this, considering God talks to you. “Whatsoever you do to the least of My brothers, that you do unto Me.”  So to say that He is “far more important” than all of these things combined is ridiculous - they are all equally important - if you forsake any of them for Him, then you’ve missed the point entirely.

But, as I’ve said before, and I’ll say again, believe what you will, you are certainly free to do so.

singstheword:

wtfai:

singstheword:

wtfai:

singstheword:

wtfai:

wtfai:

- John 14:6

This is one bible quote that I have struggled with for some time. While I’m no longer a practicing Catholic, I do own a Bible (King James version), and I do leaf through it from time to time. The only books I’ve read fully are Genesis (I had intended to read the whole thing cover to cover, but all the begats got to me) and Revelation, but I have read quite a bit here and there, in addition to some quotes (and the passages around them) that I have sought out.  Of all that I have read, this one quote really gets me thinking.

What does it mean?  That I just have to “accept” Jesus into my life, and I’m good to go?  And if so, what is this acceptance and how does one do it?  Through prayer?  And how often?  Just once?  Daily?  And what does it mean to “cometh unto the Father?”  I’ve assumed he was referring to entering in to heaven, but was he?  And then, what of the belief that Jesus was a “sun god” like others.. would that mean that the Sun is ‘the way, the truth, and the life,’ and if so, what would ‘no man cometh unto the Father but by me’ mean?  And to add to this confusion, what significance might the ‘body & blood’ hold then?  Might this simply an instruction to get regular sunlight, eat whole grains, and drink wine; something more; or something else entirely?

I could go on with my thoughts and questions on this one…

I am sad to hear that you are no longer a practicing Catholic. I would suggest seeing a good, knowledgeable priest to see if he can answer any questions which may have led you out.

It means that Jesus is God. That is the simplest way to put it.

Just accepting Jesus into your life is quite a misnomer since accepting Him involves much more than a profound, one-time statement. it is a complete way of living your life.

Accepting Jesus is an all-in-one experience. One must do so via prayer, thought, emotion, body, the whole bit. Accepting Him is not a once, a weekly, a daily, an hourly, or any other length of time thing. You must accept Him at all times. This really is just acknowledging that He is the omnipotent God, and deciding that you are going to do the only next logical thing: do whatever He says.

He was indeed referring to Heaven.

He is not a “sun god” like others since they don’t exist (logically there can only be one God (conversation for another time)). He is the God of everything.

The body, blood, soul, and divinity of Christ is one of the most precious gifts there are. Only fully pure things are in Heaven. To be in Heaven, you must be fully pure. This is impossible without God’s help. The body, blood, soul, and divinity truly present in the Eucharist are the most powerful way in which He gives us this help.

It would be something more entirely.

Coming to Him via the Father is a statement which means that He  is there for everyone since the Father beckons all. We need to follow the beckon though. To not follow this is to choose to be apart from God (Hell).

I know that this is not extremely comprehensive, but I tried to make it short. Feel free to message me with more questions if you want.

God Bless!

PAX VOBISCVM

Thanks for your response, but for the most part, it’s just more of the same, and more than a bit vague.  One interesting thing you’ve said is that we must be ‘pure’ to enter heaven - what do you think that means?  Pure in mind, body, or spirit, or all three?  And if all three, then what do you think about what most of us eat regularly?

As for the bit about Jesus being a sun god - I don’t believe that, but I was alluding to the fact that some do, as well as the fact that “son” and “sun” might be interchangeable in the bible in some passages (ex. “Truly the light is sweet, and a pleasant thing it is for the eyes to behold the sun” - Ecclesiastes 11:7).

Anyway, I’m not interested in organized religion at this point.  From what I can tell, Jesus taught against it, and then ‘they’ went and founded a religion on his teachings.

I’m looking for a more practical look at Jesus’ teachings, and this passage in particular.  He was a practical man from what I can tell, and I think much of his advice was equally practical.  Now, considering the time he was here, I do not believe that all who died before him were unable to make it to heaven (if indeed such a place exists), so it seems to me that accepting Him as God would not have been possible before He visited us, and indeed even once He had, there would have been many who hadn’t heard of Him for quite some time.  No, it seems to me He meant something more practical, and likely quite simple, though knowing some things it is also likely has meaning on more than one level, so what you say is likely correct, but I believe there is something more.

Pure entirely! Not just in those three, but in everything! We are incapable of doing this, so we need God’s help.

Son and Sun being interchangeable only goes as far as English. Remember that the Gospel was not written in English first.

Jesus did not teach against organized religion on its own. He taught against bad organized religion. The Pharisees had gotten so into their organization that they forgot the purpose was to love God and man. Organized religion is only bad when it no longer tries to bring others to God and becomes nothing more than human tenants. Jesus did found a Church (Matthew 16:18) , so He couldn’t be against organized religion.

By all means, no those who came before Him certainly had equal opportunity to go to Heaven. Today, not all who know about Jesus go to Heaven (it’s much more than that). There are people today who have never heard the name Jesus. That certainly doesn’t mean that they can’t go to Heaven. The Father beckons all. He brings them to Himself in ways which they understand. People who live by their conscience and do what is good (to the best of their knowledge) are living the Gospel (they just don’t know it by that name). Their are certain things which are true and knowable without needing God to tell us. Their are things that are bad without God needing to tell us. He can give us the fullness of faith, but there is a lot which we can understand just through reasoning.

Accepting Jesus and His teachings (which included organized religion in His Church) is the best way to accept His salvation. People who are incapable of this (having never heard of Jesus) need only to accept those things that they know are true and right to accept Jesus. They accept Him without knowing His name.

It would be impossible for me to tell you everything this statement might mean, because I am only a human. God tells us things that we don’t even know. There is more, this is just what I have to offer of it because this is what I have of it (though not all).

And, yes, indeed such a place exists.

God Bless!

PAX VOBISCVM

Thanks for your response.  

Ok, pure entirely.. so, what are your thoughts on the food produced, purchased, and consumed regularly?

I do realize the gospel was not written in english first, but once it was translated, or during translation, an error here and there could have easily turned ‘sun’ into ‘son’ and vice-versa.

Ok, Jesus didn’t teach against organized religion in-and-of-itself sure, but what of the quote below? What religion do you know of where the “teachers” do NOT have the most important seats and places of honor?  How about that popemobile eh?

• Mark 12:38-40 - ³⁸ As he taught, Jesus said, “Watch out for the teachers of the law. They like to walk around in flowing robes and be greeted with respect in the marketplaces, ³⁹ and have the most important seats in the synagogues and the places of honor at banquets. ⁴⁰ They devour widows’ houses and for a show make lengthy prayers. These men will be punished most severely.”

From what I can tell, the only church Jesus spoke of was simple, one where people gather together and are thankful, without all the pomp and ceremony:

• Matthew 18: 20 - For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.

Anyway, while I appreciate the comments, none of this is anything new to me.  I’m looking for practicality here, so if you cannot provide it, please don’t respond.  If you believe differently, hey that’s great, I’m not trying to change your mind, I’m simply trying to develop a more practical understanding of this teaching.

My thoughts on the food would stem from Matthew 15:11 - It is not what goes into the mouth that defiles a person, but it is what comes out of the mouth that defiles. From a practicality standpoint. it really doesn’t matter too much what you eat since it all gets broken down into basic building blocks and assimilated. Obviously you shouldn’t drink poison, you shouldn’t clog your arteries. But, again, Matthew 15:11 … there are more important things.

About your comment of sun - son. We have the Greek text. I see no way in which 2000 years later, we could have made this mistake. Considering the amount of time and effort go into translating the Bible. Translations aren’t perfect, but I don’t see that error being a problem.

Alright, for your passage about excessive teachers. i went to my Greek Bible (the language of origin for this passage). I read that it does not say “punished more severely.” It claims that they will receive more excessive judgement. This means that they will be examined more closely to see if they truly lived the Gospel. Now, most of what he hierarchy of the Church does is not wrong or bad. This passage deals with intent. We show honor to someone who deserves it, whether they want it or not. Sure, a Pope could be a very evil man (this doesn’t change the goodness of the Church that Christ founded), but you would still honor him as much as he deserved (for being Pope, not for being evil). Public prayer can be good and bad. If it is used to make others know that you are “holier than thou” then it is bad. If it is used (as in the Catholic Church) to bring people together, then it is good.

The pope-mobile was made so that we wouldn’t have the scare of the Pope being shot again. Its use is entirely for practical reasons.

The only problem with small gatherings of people coming together like that is that, nowadays, there are 36,000 denominations of Christianity which all teach different things about God. Obviously God doesn’t change between groups; He is who He is. So, having people split off like that only makes people worship something false about their God. Having a centralized place to go, which is given the gift of making no mistakes in teaching, would be the only practical way of God giving us religious practices. He knows how He wants us to worship Him, and He’s told us via the Church that he founded through Peter. We should take care always to do what He wants.

For practicality sake, I don’t really know what this passage’s practical standpoint could be other than: if you believe this passage become a Christian and look at His Church. He only founded one Church, and only that Church has never changed a single teaching since the time of Christ. The practicality of this passage is to be a Christian in communion with His Church and to do all the other things which go with it. Follow the 10 Commandments. Follow the Beatitudes. Follow the Natural Law. Follow the Divine Law. Follow Human Laws which are compatible with Divine and Natural Law. Love God. Love your neighbor. That should about cover everything. I don’t know how specific you want my answer to be, but you can’t get very specific from this passage since it isn’t meant to define how to act.

LMAO

Ok, sure the popemobile has practicality behind it to some degree, but does it have to be a mercedes?  And what of the other things?  About the most important places and the places of honour?

As for food, I’ve read the passage in Matthew, and I’ve also explored how what I eat affects me, and that is correct, it is that which comes out of the mouth which defileth the man, HOWEVER, that which goes in the mouth has a STRONG influence on that - play around with your diet and see.  And you say one should not eat poison - what exactly are all the chemicals in packaged foods these days but poison?  They’re certainly not meant for humans to eat, and unfortunately, the human body CANNOT break down these artificially created chemical compounds - look at the rise of the incidences of cancer lately - and then look at the number of people who have CURED themselves simply by changing their diet (like Chris here: http://chrisbeatcancer.com/).

Anyway, most of your response is more of the same-old, but I do like one thing about your response here:

For practicality sake, I don’t really know what this passage’s practical standpoint could be other than..

How about let’s leave it at that, you simply don’t know, neither do I, and neither do most of the rest of us.

I can’t leave it at that. You missed the most important part of my quote … the rest of the sentence! You tried to find a practical view of a passage with no practical application unless you are Christian. This passage has no practical application other than “Be a Christian.” Misquoting someone to suit your opinion does nothing when the person’s full idea is expressed above. I do know. you can’t even call that a full quote … it ends with a preposition! PRE-position … it comes before something. Something must follow it. Did you read the rest of the sentence? I gave you the answer, then you claim that I don’t know it. I’m sorry if I sound gruff, but seriously! Don’t misquote me to suit your opinion or what you want to hear. That’s not what I have to say! 

No matter what you eat, you still have to choose to do evil. Eating a salad instead of a BigMac does not make you a good person. Food doesn’t affect the fact that we still have free will. Yes, most packaged food nowadays has chemicals that are bad for you! I’m not disagreeing. What does that have to do with following Jesus? There are far more important matters than eating a perfectly healthy diet (none exists anyway).

If you don’t want “more of the same-old” don’t ask a question whose answer is simply “more of the same-old.” The reason the answer is “more of the same-old” is because this question was answered almost 2000 years ago! We’ve had the answer that long. It hasn’t changed. Sure it sounds old-fashioned because it hasn’t changed. There is no new answer to this question with more pizzaz or what-have-you.

Please don’t use my mother-tongue for vulgar language (lmAo), it’s personally insulting.

Now, your misquote brings you to a false conclusion. You said that I don’t know. I do. I have been told what the answer is. I know it. You need to read beyond the beginning clause of that sentence. The reason I used the words “I don’t know” is because BEYOND WHAT I LATER WROTE there really isn’t a practical answer worth finding. Since that other answer (which doesn’t even really exist) isn’t worth knowing, I chose not to learn it (also because it is a lie). the only practical meaning of this passage is “Be a Christian” after that, one must simply do as Jesus’ mother said, “Do whatever He tells you.”

God Bless!

PAX VOBISCVM

If you’re insulted by anything I’ve typed, that is for you to deal with, not me, as there was no insult intended. 

As for there being far more important matters than eating a perfectly healthy diet, and that none exists anyway - how do you know this?  Do you know everything?  Or did someone who does tell you this?  Because I’ve EXPERIENCED different.  My son is not quite 2, but so far he hasn’t been diagnosed with ANY health issues beyond eczema, which has now cleared up.  Interesting how a diet high in whole grains has helped him, and me, and it was bread that Jesus held up at the last supper.. hmm.. 

Anyway, thanks for sharing your point of view on this, but it’s simply that, your point of view, and one I’ve heard many times before, usually from people who’ve never tried or explored things for themselves.  In your opinion there “isn’t a practical answer worth finding” but in my opinion there is - and it’s not a NEW answer, or any “pizzazz” - it’s simply the unadulterated truth I am seeking.  You’re free to believe what you wish, and I will keep searching, as so far my searching has resulted in my gaining control of my own health, my son’s health, and more recently to improving my relationships on every level.

singstheword:

wtfai:

singstheword:

wtfai:

wtfai:

- John 14:6

This is one bible quote that I have struggled with for some time. While I’m no longer a practicing Catholic, I do own a Bible (King James version), and I do leaf through it from time to time. The only books I’ve read fully are Genesis (I had intended to read the whole thing cover to cover, but all the begats got to me) and Revelation, but I have read quite a bit here and there, in addition to some quotes (and the passages around them) that I have sought out.  Of all that I have read, this one quote really gets me thinking.

What does it mean?  That I just have to “accept” Jesus into my life, and I’m good to go?  And if so, what is this acceptance and how does one do it?  Through prayer?  And how often?  Just once?  Daily?  And what does it mean to “cometh unto the Father?”  I’ve assumed he was referring to entering in to heaven, but was he?  And then, what of the belief that Jesus was a “sun god” like others.. would that mean that the Sun is ‘the way, the truth, and the life,’ and if so, what would ‘no man cometh unto the Father but by me’ mean?  And to add to this confusion, what significance might the ‘body & blood’ hold then?  Might this simply an instruction to get regular sunlight, eat whole grains, and drink wine; something more; or something else entirely?

I could go on with my thoughts and questions on this one…

I am sad to hear that you are no longer a practicing Catholic. I would suggest seeing a good, knowledgeable priest to see if he can answer any questions which may have led you out.

It means that Jesus is God. That is the simplest way to put it.

Just accepting Jesus into your life is quite a misnomer since accepting Him involves much more than a profound, one-time statement. it is a complete way of living your life.

Accepting Jesus is an all-in-one experience. One must do so via prayer, thought, emotion, body, the whole bit. Accepting Him is not a once, a weekly, a daily, an hourly, or any other length of time thing. You must accept Him at all times. This really is just acknowledging that He is the omnipotent God, and deciding that you are going to do the only next logical thing: do whatever He says.

He was indeed referring to Heaven.

He is not a “sun god” like others since they don’t exist (logically there can only be one God (conversation for another time)). He is the God of everything.

The body, blood, soul, and divinity of Christ is one of the most precious gifts there are. Only fully pure things are in Heaven. To be in Heaven, you must be fully pure. This is impossible without God’s help. The body, blood, soul, and divinity truly present in the Eucharist are the most powerful way in which He gives us this help.

It would be something more entirely.

Coming to Him via the Father is a statement which means that He  is there for everyone since the Father beckons all. We need to follow the beckon though. To not follow this is to choose to be apart from God (Hell).

I know that this is not extremely comprehensive, but I tried to make it short. Feel free to message me with more questions if you want.

God Bless!

PAX VOBISCVM

Thanks for your response, but for the most part, it’s just more of the same, and more than a bit vague.  One interesting thing you’ve said is that we must be ‘pure’ to enter heaven - what do you think that means?  Pure in mind, body, or spirit, or all three?  And if all three, then what do you think about what most of us eat regularly?

As for the bit about Jesus being a sun god - I don’t believe that, but I was alluding to the fact that some do, as well as the fact that “son” and “sun” might be interchangeable in the bible in some passages (ex. “Truly the light is sweet, and a pleasant thing it is for the eyes to behold the sun” - Ecclesiastes 11:7).

Anyway, I’m not interested in organized religion at this point.  From what I can tell, Jesus taught against it, and then ‘they’ went and founded a religion on his teachings.

I’m looking for a more practical look at Jesus’ teachings, and this passage in particular.  He was a practical man from what I can tell, and I think much of his advice was equally practical.  Now, considering the time he was here, I do not believe that all who died before him were unable to make it to heaven (if indeed such a place exists), so it seems to me that accepting Him as God would not have been possible before He visited us, and indeed even once He had, there would have been many who hadn’t heard of Him for quite some time.  No, it seems to me He meant something more practical, and likely quite simple, though knowing some things it is also likely has meaning on more than one level, so what you say is likely correct, but I believe there is something more.

Pure entirely! Not just in those three, but in everything! We are incapable of doing this, so we need God’s help.

Son and Sun being interchangeable only goes as far as English. Remember that the Gospel was not written in English first.

Jesus did not teach against organized religion on its own. He taught against bad organized religion. The Pharisees had gotten so into their organization that they forgot the purpose was to love God and man. Organized religion is only bad when it no longer tries to bring others to God and becomes nothing more than human tenants. Jesus did found a Church (Matthew 16:18) , so He couldn’t be against organized religion.

By all means, no those who came before Him certainly had equal opportunity to go to Heaven. Today, not all who know about Jesus go to Heaven (it’s much more than that). There are people today who have never heard the name Jesus. That certainly doesn’t mean that they can’t go to Heaven. The Father beckons all. He brings them to Himself in ways which they understand. People who live by their conscience and do what is good (to the best of their knowledge) are living the Gospel (they just don’t know it by that name). Their are certain things which are true and knowable without needing God to tell us. Their are things that are bad without God needing to tell us. He can give us the fullness of faith, but there is a lot which we can understand just through reasoning.

Accepting Jesus and His teachings (which included organized religion in His Church) is the best way to accept His salvation. People who are incapable of this (having never heard of Jesus) need only to accept those things that they know are true and right to accept Jesus. They accept Him without knowing His name.

It would be impossible for me to tell you everything this statement might mean, because I am only a human. God tells us things that we don’t even know. There is more, this is just what I have to offer of it because this is what I have of it (though not all).

And, yes, indeed such a place exists.

God Bless!

PAX VOBISCVM

Thanks for your response.  

Ok, pure entirely.. so, what are your thoughts on the food produced, purchased, and consumed regularly?

I do realize the gospel was not written in english first, but once it was translated, or during translation, an error here and there could have easily turned ‘sun’ into ‘son’ and vice-versa.

Ok, Jesus didn’t teach against organized religion in-and-of-itself sure, but what of the quote below? What religion do you know of where the “teachers” do NOT have the most important seats and places of honor?  How about that popemobile eh?

• Mark 12:38-40 - ³⁸ As he taught, Jesus said, “Watch out for the teachers of the law. They like to walk around in flowing robes and be greeted with respect in the marketplaces, ³⁹ and have the most important seats in the synagogues and the places of honor at banquets. ⁴⁰ They devour widows’ houses and for a show make lengthy prayers. These men will be punished most severely.”

From what I can tell, the only church Jesus spoke of was simple, one where people gather together and are thankful, without all the pomp and ceremony:

• Matthew 18: 20 - For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.

Anyway, while I appreciate the comments, none of this is anything new to me.  I’m looking for practicality here, so if you cannot provide it, please don’t respond.  If you believe differently, hey that’s great, I’m not trying to change your mind, I’m simply trying to develop a more practical understanding of this teaching.

My thoughts on the food would stem from Matthew 15:11 - It is not what goes into the mouth that defiles a person, but it is what comes out of the mouth that defiles. From a practicality standpoint. it really doesn’t matter too much what you eat since it all gets broken down into basic building blocks and assimilated. Obviously you shouldn’t drink poison, you shouldn’t clog your arteries. But, again, Matthew 15:11 … there are more important things.

About your comment of sun - son. We have the Greek text. I see no way in which 2000 years later, we could have made this mistake. Considering the amount of time and effort go into translating the Bible. Translations aren’t perfect, but I don’t see that error being a problem.

Alright, for your passage about excessive teachers. i went to my Greek Bible (the language of origin for this passage). I read that it does not say “punished more severely.” It claims that they will receive more excessive judgement. This means that they will be examined more closely to see if they truly lived the Gospel. Now, most of what he hierarchy of the Church does is not wrong or bad. This passage deals with intent. We show honor to someone who deserves it, whether they want it or not. Sure, a Pope could be a very evil man (this doesn’t change the goodness of the Church that Christ founded), but you would still honor him as much as he deserved (for being Pope, not for being evil). Public prayer can be good and bad. If it is used to make others know that you are “holier than thou” then it is bad. If it is used (as in the Catholic Church) to bring people together, then it is good.

The pope-mobile was made so that we wouldn’t have the scare of the Pope being shot again. Its use is entirely for practical reasons.

The only problem with small gatherings of people coming together like that is that, nowadays, there are 36,000 denominations of Christianity which all teach different things about God. Obviously God doesn’t change between groups; He is who He is. So, having people split off like that only makes people worship something false about their God. Having a centralized place to go, which is given the gift of making no mistakes in teaching, would be the only practical way of God giving us religious practices. He knows how He wants us to worship Him, and He’s told us via the Church that he founded through Peter. We should take care always to do what He wants.

For practicality sake, I don’t really know what this passage’s practical standpoint could be other than: if you believe this passage become a Christian and look at His Church. He only founded one Church, and only that Church has never changed a single teaching since the time of Christ. The practicality of this passage is to be a Christian in communion with His Church and to do all the other things which go with it. Follow the 10 Commandments. Follow the Beatitudes. Follow the Natural Law. Follow the Divine Law. Follow Human Laws which are compatible with Divine and Natural Law. Love God. Love your neighbor. That should about cover everything. I don’t know how specific you want my answer to be, but you can’t get very specific from this passage since it isn’t meant to define how to act.

LMAO

Ok, sure the popemobile has practicality behind it to some degree, but does it have to be a mercedes?  And what of the other things?  About the most important places and the places of honour?

As for food, I’ve read the passage in Matthew, and I’ve also explored how what I eat affects me, and that is correct, it is that which comes out of the mouth which defileth the man, HOWEVER, that which goes in the mouth has a STRONG influence on that - play around with your diet and see.  And you say one should not eat poison - what exactly are all the chemicals in packaged foods these days but poison?  They’re certainly not meant for humans to eat, and unfortunately, the human body CANNOT break down these artificially created chemical compounds - look at the rise of the incidences of cancer lately - and then look at the number of people who have CURED themselves simply by changing their diet (like Chris here: http://chrisbeatcancer.com/).

Anyway, most of your response is more of the same-old, but I do like one thing about your response here:

For practicality sake, I don’t really know what this passage’s practical standpoint could be other than..

How about let’s leave it at that, you simply don’t know, neither do I, and neither do most of the rest of us.

singstheword:

wtfai:

wtfai:

- John 14:6

This is one bible quote that I have struggled with for some time. While I’m no longer a practicing Catholic, I do own a Bible (King James version), and I do leaf through it from time to time. The only books I’ve read fully are Genesis (I had intended to read the whole thing cover to cover, but all the begats got to me) and Revelation, but I have read quite a bit here and there, in addition to some quotes (and the passages around them) that I have sought out.  Of all that I have read, this one quote really gets me thinking.

What does it mean?  That I just have to “accept” Jesus into my life, and I’m good to go?  And if so, what is this acceptance and how does one do it?  Through prayer?  And how often?  Just once?  Daily?  And what does it mean to “cometh unto the Father?”  I’ve assumed he was referring to entering in to heaven, but was he?  And then, what of the belief that Jesus was a “sun god” like others.. would that mean that the Sun is ‘the way, the truth, and the life,’ and if so, what would ‘no man cometh unto the Father but by me’ mean?  And to add to this confusion, what significance might the ‘body & blood’ hold then?  Might this simply an instruction to get regular sunlight, eat whole grains, and drink wine; something more; or something else entirely?

I could go on with my thoughts and questions on this one…

I am sad to hear that you are no longer a practicing Catholic. I would suggest seeing a good, knowledgeable priest to see if he can answer any questions which may have led you out.

It means that Jesus is God. That is the simplest way to put it.

Just accepting Jesus into your life is quite a misnomer since accepting Him involves much more than a profound, one-time statement. it is a complete way of living your life.

Accepting Jesus is an all-in-one experience. One must do so via prayer, thought, emotion, body, the whole bit. Accepting Him is not a once, a weekly, a daily, an hourly, or any other length of time thing. You must accept Him at all times. This really is just acknowledging that He is the omnipotent God, and deciding that you are going to do the only next logical thing: do whatever He says.

He was indeed referring to Heaven.

He is not a “sun god” like others since they don’t exist (logically there can only be one God (conversation for another time)). He is the God of everything.

The body, blood, soul, and divinity of Christ is one of the most precious gifts there are. Only fully pure things are in Heaven. To be in Heaven, you must be fully pure. This is impossible without God’s help. The body, blood, soul, and divinity truly present in the Eucharist are the most powerful way in which He gives us this help.

It would be something more entirely.

Coming to Him via the Father is a statement which means that He  is there for everyone since the Father beckons all. We need to follow the beckon though. To not follow this is to choose to be apart from God (Hell).

I know that this is not extremely comprehensive, but I tried to make it short. Feel free to message me with more questions if you want.

God Bless!

PAX VOBISCVM

Thanks for your response, but for the most part, it’s just more of the same, and more than a bit vague.  One interesting thing you’ve said is that we must be ‘pure’ to enter heaven - what do you think that means?  Pure in mind, body, or spirit, or all three?  And if all three, then what do you think about what most of us eat regularly?

As for the bit about Jesus being a sun god - I don’t believe that, but I was alluding to the fact that some do, as well as the fact that “son” and “sun” might be interchangeable in the bible in some passages (ex. “Truly the light is sweet, and a pleasant thing it is for the eyes to behold the sun” - Ecclesiastes 11:7).

Anyway, I’m not interested in organized religion at this point.  From what I can tell, Jesus taught against it, and then ‘they’ went and founded a religion on his teachings.

I’m looking for a more practical look at Jesus’ teachings, and this passage in particular.  He was a practical man from what I can tell, and I think much of his advice was equally practical.  Now, considering the time he was here, I do not believe that all who died before him were unable to make it to heaven (if indeed such a place exists), so it seems to me that accepting Him as God would not have been possible before He visited us, and indeed even once He had, there would have been many who hadn’t heard of Him for quite some time.  No, it seems to me He meant something more practical, and likely quite simple, though knowing some things it is also likely has meaning on more than one level, so what you say is likely correct, but I believe there is something more.

Pure entirely! Not just in those three, but in everything! We are incapable of doing this, so we need God’s help.

Son and Sun being interchangeable only goes as far as English. Remember that the Gospel was not written in English first.

Jesus did not teach against organized religion on its own. He taught against bad organized religion. The Pharisees had gotten so into their organization that they forgot the purpose was to love God and man. Organized religion is only bad when it no longer tries to bring others to God and becomes nothing more than human tenants. Jesus did found a Church (Matthew 16:18) , so He couldn’t be against organized religion.

By all means, no those who came before Him certainly had equal opportunity to go to Heaven. Today, not all who know about Jesus go to Heaven (it’s much more than that). There are people today who have never heard the name Jesus. That certainly doesn’t mean that they can’t go to Heaven. The Father beckons all. He brings them to Himself in ways which they understand. People who live by their conscience and do what is good (to the best of their knowledge) are living the Gospel (they just don’t know it by that name). Their are certain things which are true and knowable without needing God to tell us. Their are things that are bad without God needing to tell us. He can give us the fullness of faith, but there is a lot which we can understand just through reasoning.

Accepting Jesus and His teachings (which included organized religion in His Church) is the best way to accept His salvation. People who are incapable of this (having never heard of Jesus) need only to accept those things that they know are true and right to accept Jesus. They accept Him without knowing His name.

It would be impossible for me to tell you everything this statement might mean, because I am only a human. God tells us things that we don’t even know. There is more, this is just what I have to offer of it because this is what I have of it (though not all).

And, yes, indeed such a place exists.

God Bless!

PAX VOBISCVM

Thanks for your response.  

Ok, pure entirely.. so, what are your thoughts on the food produced, purchased, and consumed regularly?

I do realize the gospel was not written in english first, but once it was translated, or during translation, an error here and there could have easily turned ‘sun’ into ‘son’ and vice-versa.

Ok, Jesus didn’t teach against organized religion in-and-of-itself sure, but what of the quote below? What religion do you know of where the “teachers” do NOT have the most important seats and places of honor?  How about that popemobile eh?

• Mark 12:38-40 - ³⁸ As he taught, Jesus said, “Watch out for the teachers of the law. They like to walk around in flowing robes and be greeted with respect in the marketplaces, ³⁹ and have the most important seats in the synagogues and the places of honor at banquets. ⁴⁰ They devour widows’ houses and for a show make lengthy prayers. These men will be punished most severely.”

From what I can tell, the only church Jesus spoke of was simple, one where people gather together and are thankful, without all the pomp and ceremony:

• Matthew 18: 20 - For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.

Anyway, while I appreciate the comments, none of this is anything new to me.  I’m looking for practicality here, so if you cannot provide it, please don’t respond.  If you believe differently, hey that’s great, I’m not trying to change your mind, I’m simply trying to develop a more practical understanding of this teaching.